Table of Contents
After I published my podcast with Will Hobson comparing the differences between UK and US digital PR, Ellie Sumner from Prosperity Media contacted me.
She wanted to give me some insight into Australia’s budding digital PR scene.
Ellie is a former UK digital PR who moved to Australia to help a local agency, Prosperity Media, build their digital PR offering.
If you’re interested in pitching to Australian media or building digital PR strategies in Australia, this conversation with Ellie is inspiring and full of actionable takeaways.
Takeaways for Success with Digital PR in Australia
Here are five main takeaways for being successful with digital PR in Australia based on my discussion with Ellie:
1. Data wins
Data-driven campaigns perform exceptionally well in Australia, especially those that provide unique insights or leverage surveys like Pure Profile. However, journalists like to dig into the data, so be prepared!
2. Be prepared with unique stories (if possible) to tie to campaigns
Ellie talked about how many journalists will ask for “case studies,” aka real-world stories that complement the data in the stories she pitches. This is something journalists use to build out their stories.
3. Pitch the tier-one pubs (but build angles for smaller pubs)
Australia’s media environment is smaller and more concentrated, with a limited number of tier-one publications. So, each campaign should have multiple angles if you want more reach.
4. Build journalist relationships in person
Journalists in Australia are often open to collaboration and value personalized pitches. Meeting in person or via calls can strengthen relationships. Ellie talked about meeting a journalist for coffee and talking for over two hours!
Since the relationships are bigger, journalists may also be more receptive to adding links for unlinked mention outreach.
So, think about how to wield exclusives to build relationships with journalists.
5. Educate clients on digital PR
Digital PR is relatively new in Australia. Often, clients just equate it to traditional link building. Highlight digital PR’s value in achieving high-authority links, brand awareness, and integrating with traditional PR.
Resources Mentioned
We didn’t mention a lot of campaigns, but we did mention a few tools that Ellie and the team used (or were testing at the time of recording).
Pure Profile (for surveys): https://www.pureprofile.com/
Stream (for media list and reporting capabilities): https://www.stream.com.au/
Miss Diagnosed campaign from Bottled Imagination: https://www.higgsllp.co.uk/articles/misdiagnosis-the-overlooked-crisis-in-womens-health
Transcript
Here’s the full (partially edited) transcript for your reading pleasure.
Icebreaker: Have you seen a great piece of content recently?
Ellie: I don’t want to disappoint. It’s not Australian, but there are not that many pieces of digital PR in Australia yet. Um, but there was one that I saw on LinkedIn the other day from Bottled Imagination. They’d done a campaign called Miss Diagnosed, and it was about the number of female-specific illnesses that have been misdiagnosed and the most commonly misdiagnosed conditions.
which is really interesting. I love a campaign that’s meaningful and has an awareness piece as well. Obviously, a fun one’s great, but it’s nice to work on something and see a campaign that has that awareness piece. And it was really cool. They had a really cool visualization of a wrist with the hospital bands on the rest of it.
So it was really cool way. They, they did it.
Vince: Yeah. I’ve got to check it out. I don’t know as much of their stuff, but, uh, yeah, that sounds great. And I’ll, I’ll be sure to link to it in the show notes. So I mentioned this before you were working at digital loft in the UK. Okay. Then you move to a traditional PR agency in Australia.
And then from that traditional PR agency, then you moved to work with Prosperity also in Australia. Can you talk a little bit about, I guess, that transition? Like why, why the move to Australia?
Why did you move to Australia?
Ellie: Um, the move was just like personal choice. Like Australia is much better weather than the UK. Like today it’s 30 degrees outside at home.
I think it’s been raining and flooding and all sorts. Um, close to the beach, like all the usual reasons Brits move to Australia. Yeah. Um. So yeah, I left Digital Loft, which, well, I stayed freelance for Digital Loft for a while. Um, Digital Loft are a great agency, um, if I was in the UK, I imagine I’d still be there.
It’s a big shout out to them, but then I needed to be sponsored to stay here, so I had to go into traditional PR, um, because Digital PR wasn’t a thing about a year ago, really, like, nowhere was doing it. It’s only in the last, like, six months that I think, that I’ve noticed anyway. More agencies doing digital PR.
So, um, Jonas, our digital PR director here, he introduced the digital PR kind of offering in that agency like a year ago. Um, so we’ve been doing digital PR prosperity for a year and I joined about four months ago.
Vince: Yeah. Awesome. I kind of had a similar journey; I moved from the East Coast of the United States to the West Coast for similar reasons.
Uh, we. I lived in San Diego for a long time, and that’s where I got my start. I worked at Siege Media for a long time. Now, I’ve since moved back to the East Coast, but yeah, the weather is a great reason to move, but you unloaded a bunch there talking about some key points.
And what I think is a little surprising, at least to me, with digital PR and specifically in Australia. So one of the things you said was, until a year ago, there weren’t really many people doing digital PR. Do you think they had been doing some version of it but maybe they just haven’t called it digital PR?
I know that’s kind of the same thing, a similar situation, that we’re here in the States. People don’t necessarily refer to it as digital PR. They call it link building, content marketing, or content promotion, you know, but it’s not necessarily referred to as digital PR here.
Have agencies in Australia been doing digital PR?
Ellie: No, I think it is mainly just like traditional link building. They have, I think it’s kind of a way where people have said they’re doing digital PR, but really, it’s been a bit dodgy and been like more traditional link building than digital PR.
So yeah, but people, if you work in like a PR agency, if you’ve got getting coverage on like an online publication, you still try and get a link in there. Obviously it’s good for brand awareness and like click throughs. Um, but yeah, nothing specific to job PR, even if it’s not called that, I don’t think.
Vince: So I make this mistake a lot on this podcast where I don’t necessarily define digital PR and people define it in different ways.
And based off of your last answer, it kind of sounds like you might define digital PR as. Getting links from online publications, uh, you know, pitching, pitching content to get links from online publications. Is that kind of where your head is at with, with the term?
Can you define digital PR?
Ellie: Yeah, I’d say main, like the first part of it is always kind of like building links.
That’s why clients are coming to us to build those highly relevant. Uh, high authority links, but then there’s also the secondary element of building brand awareness and building expertise and authority and that kind of it as well. So I think there’s a bit of both in there.
Vince: Yeah, for sure. And I would say too, like, I feel, and I’m curious to hear your thoughts on this.
There’s kind of starting to become a shift where, PR, the first thing people think about is links. Um, that’s the first thing people report on. And, and, but there’s also, like you said, the brand awareness, the expertise, I feel like that part, the second part of that is starting to become kind of a lot more important to people, although.
It’s not as straightforward to report on as, you know, we got you coverage in whatever the high DA publication, but that seems to be where the shift is going. I’m curious if you’ve seen that as well?
Does digital PR in Australia focus only on links?
Ellie: Yeah, and I think so in Australia as well, like to get the coverage here you kind of need that extra bit. Like you need to have the spokespeople to give a quote, and you need to perhaps have like a case study to speak on the story. Part of getting the coverage here and like really relevant stories to the brand, that kind of thing, which I suppose is kind of towards that kind of mod brand building.
And I know a lot of our clients really like to even not get, not just get links, but they love it when they’re in the radio, like on the radio, they love it when they’re in print as well. So it’s kind of like, they’re quite happy to just get coverage overall and have that traditional PR as like an extra benefit to paying for.
Yeah.
Vince: Well, so yeah, let’s take a step back. So you worked in traditional PR in Australia and then moved to digital. What would you say are some of the things that you carried over into digital? I’m really just curious about the differences between the two.
How would you define the differences between traditional and digital PR in Australia?
Ellie: I’ve honestly carried over, like, most things.
I think the main difference is that, like, we do the data-driven campaigns in digital PR, which we never did. We maybe did a few surveys, well quite a few surveys in traditional PR, um, but it was a lot of like kind of brand-led stories and what we could kind of hook the brand to.
We’d never do an index or kind of data analysis aside from the surveys, so I think that’s the main difference. However, in terms of everything that’s carried over from traditional PR, I try to do digital PR in a very similar way.
I do carry over pitching exclusively to tier ones, having the case studies, quotes from the spokespeople, opportunities to interview the spokespeople, opportunities to interview the case studies, all that kind of thing, into digital PR here.
Vince: Can you explain the case studies to me so I understand what you’re talking about?
Because I’m a little fuzzy on that.
Can you explain what a “case study” is in terms of digital PR?
Ellie: Yeah. So for example, we did a campaign for one of our clients is like a driving school. So, we created a campaign about the cost of getting your license in each state. So for that, one of the journalists really wanted a case study of a learner driver who likes to discuss their thoughts on the price of learning to drive and just to speak to the kind of topic of the research.
So it’s kind of like, sometimes I’ll ask for it, or sometimes I’ll try and go to the journalist with a case study already because that can really sell in a story as I’ve had times before where, for example, as research about um, part-time workers in Australia. And having like the case study as a part time worker in Australia who’s a man and is taking that part time work to look after his children, that’s kind of like a big selling point of the story to the journalist, not just the research.
It’s kind of like having that case study gets over the line, the research is just kind of help him make the story, if that makes sense.
Vince: Yeah, 100%. I mean, you hear that feedback from a lot of people, and I mean, I remember doing it myself. It’s like, you’re pitching a journalist, try to do all the work for them, right?
You just, like, want it to be as turnkey as possible. It sounds like that’s exactly what you’re doing. I, I, yeah, I get that. I’m trying to think, have I ever done something that intense? Like that intensive because you still also include expert quotes from, you know, so it’s like the expert quote as well as this case study.
Ellie: Yeah, sometimes it all just kind of, it depends on the story, but sometimes you’ll kind of offer a case study. Sometimes, you won’t, honestly won’t be able to find them. Like, I’ve had times, quite a few times, the journalist wants a case study, but I honestly can’t find one. And the story’s just been unable to go through because they need a case study.
Like that much, which is always disappointing, but you can’t help it if you can’t, can’t find someone.
Vince: It’s funny. I mean, it’s like, it sounds like you’re, I mean, I just said this, like you’re doing the journalist’s job, but like, you really are doing the job of a journalist to find these people. Um, wow. So, I mean, that’s not something that you did in the UK, right?
This is kind of the first time I’ve, I’ve heard of this, like kind of case study approach.
Is the “case study” used in the UK?
Ellie: No, never. I think we’ve seen it where that kind of stories. Maybe based like maybe more of a reactive piece around the case study. But no, every time there’s research half the time in like, well, not even half, like the majority of the time a journalist wouldn’t even reply to the email.
They just publish the results. Yeah, you just see them come live. Oh, it’s nice if covered. But here, in 99 percent of cases, a journalist will reply to you. They’ll want some more info, to check the data, and maybe an extra quote. So I feel like there’s a lot more relationship building and working together in Australia than there was in the UK.
Vince: Yeah, that’s wild I mean, obviously it’s much bigger but like you don’t see that type of relationship here in the States, right? Like wow, Okay. So that’s kind of like some of the nuance with the pitch process. Let’s talk a little bit about content ideation and the type of content that you’re pitching. And, um, I want to really dig into that.
That’s where, uh, you know, my favorite part of this is kind of an ideation.
How does the ideation process differ for digital PR in Australia?
Ellie: Yeah, I think it is very similar. Um, it’s kind of nice here because, as I said, digital PR isn’t A big thing, like data-led campaigns aren’t really that big. So I’ve honestly gone back in imagination to like campaigns that I did like a few years ago in the UK and been like, Oh, we can do this here before I joined they did.
Best cities to start a business in Australia, which I think has been done quite a lot of times overseas, but never in Australia. And it did so well. I think it got over like a hundred links in TV and radio as well. So like, it’s, I think it’s easier in that sense. Um, cause you can kind of use a lot of inspiration from overseas.
And I think it does work. I also do think Journalists here are more receptive to a survey. I know it is used in the UK as well. Um, but maybe those like higher brow journalists, um, you know, kind of more accepting to a survey as well. So we do a lot more surveys here than I ever did. Um, at Digital Loft.
Vince: Is there a specific platform you use for those surveys in Australia?
Is there a survey platform you’ve used in Australia?
Ellie: We use Pure Profile, which is all over the world, um,
Vince: I got to check that out.
Ellie: Yeah. And then just kind of, because the media landscape is so limited in Australia, you only have a maximum like 10 tier one, maybe, um, and then you’d be like a few lifestyles, a few of like each niche, you kind of have to make sure you’re thinking like multiple angles.
Cause they often want like an exclusive angle. Like, the Daily Telegraph has covered it, Sydney Morning Herald won’t want to, so you kind of have to consider the angles as well as, like, try and think of those regional angles. Because obviously Australia is huge, but there’s only like four or five major cities, so thinking of those regional angles.
Vince: That’s a really good point, um, I didn’t even think of that. Like, so, I mean, do you feel handcuffed by ideation in some regards? Because I can feel, like, you know, when you’re pitching ideas, like maybe you do four, I don’t know how you do it. I mean, it’s probably a good follow-up question, but, like, say you do four posts a year or something.
It’s like, you have to make sure they’re not overlapping. And that just seems pretty tough to me.
Does the smaller media landscape in Australia make it harder to ideate?
Ellie: Yeah. Yeah. No, it is, I guess it’s like beneficial, but also A bit of like holding back as hold you back from certain ideas as well. But yeah, just try and work around it.
Vince: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do you find yourself selling to clients?
Is that a different process? You hit on that a little bit earlier about the brand and the market and the whole marketing tie-in expertise being important. But yeah, let’s get into selling to clients.
Is selling to clients different in Australia much different?
Ellie: Yeah, so I don’t do like new business but I know that here a lot of, um, brands that come to us don’t really know what digital PR is.
So having a slide on what is digital PR is kind of part of our standard pitch deck, which back in the UK, you’d have people coming to you because they wanted digital PR. Here it’s more our clients come to us wanting traditional link building.
And then it’s like, Oh, well, actually we do digital PR and this is what it is. And this is how, um, it’s kind of superior to traditional link building or how it can compliment link building, um, and like showcase how it works and all the benefits and what is a digital PR campaign. So I think it’s definitely more education, um, when selling to clients compared to what I would be in the UK.
Vince: Yeah, I mean, I feel like that’s similar in the United States still is. I mean, I find myself in that role right now at BuzzStream when I’m writing content is like trying to push the value of digital PR. over some of these older school methods. I mean, what, do you have any thoughts on that? Like the value of digital PR, like how that gets framed to clients over some of the traditional methods?
In your opinion, what is the value of digital PR vs. traditional link-building methods?
Ellie: I think it’s like how you can get such high, like high DR. Publications, um, compared to the traditional link building and how they’re more trusted and relevant than those sites. Um, and I think when clients hear that, you can kind of get them on, um, like, linked on the news. com. DR98. It’s obviously like a big, Oh, wow, that would be great, um, compared to those traditional link building.
Vince: So they’re not as concerned about link volume.
Are AUS clients concerned about the volume of links?
Ellie: Um, no, we, yeah, we don’t really focus on link volume. Also, like if you get like a syndication, you can get like a hundred links and like, it covers a lot of the country, but it’s kind of syndicated. So you like, once you’ve got that, no one else is going to cover either.
So it’s kind of like, because of the smaller media landscape, it’s a bit harder as well to get that volume of links without like the syndication.
Vince: yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so you mentioned a couple, I want to get back to the content thing. You mentioned a couple content types. You said like data, studies, surveys.
Are there any others that you’ve, you’ve tried or you’ve seen successful in Australia?
Besides data and surveys, what other content types are successful in Australia?
Ellie: Not really. But I’d say that reactive isn’t as successful here as in the UK.
Back in the UK, you’d always see the reactive expert tips and that kind of campaign. They just don’t work that well here.
Um, I think it’s because, maybe because there’s so many, there’s so, such a smaller amount of journalists and still a lot of like PRs pitching that potentially they have the content.
I feel like they will also do it themselves.
Like, if they want to run that story, they’ll find an expert themselves. Um, I think there are a lot of journalists here are a lot more dig into who the people are or what the data is, that kind of thing. They’re more stringent about checking it.
But yeah, when I first moved here, I was like, oh, let’s do this, and like, no one would cover anything, like, along the, like, expert tip or stuff like that.
So I think that’s something to know.
Vince: So they’ll go the extra mile to get the ex their own expert quotes, but they won’t get the case studies.
Ellie: I think that’s just if they want to run the story. Like if they’re in their heads, like, Oh yeah, like we’ll do this story. But if I’m pitching a story that like, yeah, we’ll do it, but you’ll have to find it.
Vince: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That’s funny. Okay. So yeah, that, that, the reactive, I feel like it’s such a big thing. It was something I never really did much of, but yeah, I guess it sounds like it doesn’t work as well. And I do remember, so I talked to Hannah Montgomery from Shout Bravo, an agency in the UK. And we just published a podcast about international pitching.
We didn’t really get much into Australia.
Do you, and some of the, she’s saying many of the same things, like data goes a long way.
It seems like internationally, but I think some of the other important things were like cultural awareness.
And you know, one of the things I’m thinking here is like, you know, if listeners here are listening to this podcast and feeling like, okay, you know, maybe they’re in UK or they’re in the States and they’re like, oh, I should start trying to get Australian clients, right?
Like smaller market, but you know, not a lot of people doing it.
I would imagine there’s a lot of, uh, education needed around the culture, pitch, and talk to journalists. Do you find that to be the case?
Do you need a lot of education around the culture to get working in digital PR in Australia?
Ellie: Yeah, I think it’s. Like, my pitches are quite similar (to the UK). It depends on the, it honestly depends on the story and pitching, but I feel like if you lead with that relevant hook and like most important information, um, and stuff like that.
Yeah, very, very similar. The pitches are correct. Um, I think it’s kind of, like, know more about the media, like knowing the journalists and like offering someone one exclusive, like, so you need to know who will only cover if it’s an exclusive and, like, making sure you kind of have that tiered approach, approach to outreach.
Um, so if you wanna, if you know, you want to get the Sydney Morning Herald for this, like just pitching to them first and offering it as an exclusive, like stuff like that.
I think it’s like the nuances that are probably harder to learn and being, going to the traditional PR agency first really helped me learn that because they’ve been working in Australian media for years and years and years.
Vince: Yeah. Let’s get back to the exclusive thing because that’s interesting to me and I, I want to get your take on how you think through who to offer the exclusive to because I know that can be a toss up sometimes.
Who do you choose to offer an exclusive to?
Ellie: Yeah, I think, well, as you obviously work in a place, you know, you get to know the journalists.
So I usually think, because a lot of our clients are new to digital PR, we try and think of where we haven’t linked to them yet. For example, News Corp publications, like the Daily Telegraph and the Herald Sun, are typically a bit easier to get a link from than perhaps the Sydney Morning Herald or the Guardian.
So, I’d probably go to, maybe if the story suits them, to Sydney Modern Herald if they’ve not got a link from them and offer them exclusive first, and then if they say no, or if they don’t get back, then kind of go into the Daily Telegraph as an alternative.
So I kind of think about that as well as where I think the story will land the best or like, or if the, where the brand wants to target.
So if they only want to target, like if news.com.au is a dream publication and the story suits like going to them and with the exclusive, so just kind of like where they’ve been covered before and where we can get some new links or where suits the story the best or where the brand wants to be mentioned.
Um, and seeing probably like the three things I think about with exclusives and the journalists. So if you’ve got a relationship with a journalist, it’s quite good to go to them first with the exclusives. So it just builds on that relationship. If you can offer them an exclusive, um, some will only take exclusives.
For example, if it’s the Weekend Telegraph, they only want exclusive stories. So you just need to ensure that if you want to pitch them, it’s an exclusive. So I feel like it’s kind of learning all the It’s all about the media and then kind of tailoring it to, to them.
Vince: Yeah.
I feel like people do this differently when you get an exclusive with one place, do you then not pitch it at all anywhere else?
Or do you just wait until that place that has the exclusive goes live and then you can pitch to other places?
Once you secure an exclusive, do you repitch to other publications?
Ellie: Yeah. I’d wait until that one goes live. I think I’d probably change the angle.
It depends if you offer a first run or an exclusive if it’s a first run. Um, Let’s say I delivered a first run to the Daily Telegraph, and then once that was published, I could probably go elsewhere with the same story but if it’s an exclusive, you could still do that but you might just damage the relationship if it’s picked up elsewhere but it’s usually fine like if it was, it’s usually if it’s just another tier one like then you can go out to like the smaller regional publications like the lifestyle publications like Far and Wide and it’s usually fine.
It’s usually the tier ones that kind of compete against themselves.
Vince: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so get, getting back to the content ideation thing, another thing popped in my head about, you know, kind of learning and knowing the area, knowing Australia culture. One of the things that, I think it was Will Hobson said, we had a conversation about the differences between the U.S. and U. K., (they had just opened a office in the U. S.) and he was saying, you know, I get so many more content ideas when I’m here in the U. S., like walking around, looking at billboards, watching commercials, and, and just being around.
Do you find that’s the case, or would that be the case for people trying to make it in Australia if they’re not necessarily there?
Do you need to be on the continent to ideate digital PR ideas for Australia successfully?
Ellie: Oh, I think I find it kind of similar. After all, there’s not a big digital PR kind of thing. I’m getting less inspiration from other campaigns. I feel like in the UK, I always knew what every agency was doing. And it was kind of like, Oh, that’s a good idea.
And you can kind of like see different stories. I find that even though there are still all the resources out there and keep up to date, I just feel a bit out of it, which makes it harder to think of ideas. But then at the same time, because there’s less. It is a bit easier.
Vince: Yeah. That’s interesting. I also remember repurposing a lot of content when I was with Siege.
Um, and I always kind of liked that approach, like internationally, you kind of hinted at this earlier, but like, you know, finding something in the UK and trying to redo it in the U S it was like, uh, I forget who did this campaign, but it was like how much air is in a bag of crisps was something that was done in the UK and we just took it and did it for a US client and called it chips because that’s what we call it here. Um, I’d imagine you can kind of do similar mix and match it with australia from the you know Us and uk content.
Are you able to repurpose ideas from other countries for Australian clients?
Ellie: Yeah, for sure.
It’s quite nice, especially because you can sell it to the client, like, oh, it’s a proven concept, like it’s worked overseas, and it’ll probably work here.
Vince: Well, okay, so I want to get into one more angle of this, and it’s the kind of media list and list building and relationships with journalists we touched on in a bit.
I actually talked to you a little bit before because I just did a little bit of research, and we put out this extensive list on media. Yeah, databases. I had never heard of Telum Media, which seems like maybe the de facto for Australia, although there might be a few more.
But I was curious to—I forget what your answer was actually—do you use a media database?
Do you use a media database?
Ellie: So we didn’t at Prosperity for, and just until last week, actually, um, cause we’re a new team, we’ve just literally been doing it ourselves, which is kind of, it’s quite, can be time consuming, but you do get most of the emails on the websites and it is a really good way of making sure you’re getting relevant contacts, up to date contacts.
So I do quite like that method and I still do that, but we’ve just started using a new platform called Stream, which covers media monitoring. lists and outreach all in one tool. So it’s literally been a couple of days, but we’re using that now. And that’s helping just find a few extra contacts from like smaller publications, which I think is definitely needed.
And just finding those emails when some come up invalid, or you can’t find an email that’s really helpful.
Vince: Yeah. What is your kind of validation process look like for those lists that, well, Oh, I guess. I mean, you don’t have lists, or you just started having lists. What does your validation process look like for making sure that a journalist is You know, still there, still working, still, you know, relevant fit and everything.
How do you validate that a journalist is a good fit?
Ellie: Oh, there’s, the tool does have like a bit where you can see the recent articles, um, for most of them. So that’s quite good to like see if they’re covering the right topic. Because sometimes it will say they cover like business and then you’ll look and it’s, you know. Not business or the not right kind of business that you’re targeting.
So that’s useful. But I do like to make sure I go on websites and try to do it. Like I pick the publications I want to go to go on the website, see what the people talk, who’s talking about war, then looking for the email on the tool rather than the other way around. That’s just personally how I prefer to do it.
Um, but then I know some, you can’t find the journalist’s name. So I think that’s when the tool comes in as a secondary backup option.
Vince: Yeah, I found it’s like the smaller local sites. Sometimes they’re just not good with that at all. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. So when we talk about media lists, media databases, building kind of relevant journalists, you also had said, I think when we talked that, like, Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you’re building a lot more relationships with journalists. It sounds like it’s more of the, like, you could probably call a journalist, right, or like go meet them and get coffee. I mean, is that the case?
Are you meeting journalists in person more in Australia?
Ellie: Yeah, I’ve met a couple of journalists before, and I think, in the UK, I mean, I wasn’t based in London, so I don’t, I’m sure if you probably lived down there, it might be different, um, but yeah, I’d never, I never even, never even tried to do that in the UK, but here, well, in my, traditional PR agency, it was encouraged to get those media contacts kind of, um, and meet them in real life.
Because you do learn a lot by talking to them. I met a lovely journalist from the Daily Telegraph for Coffee. We were there for about two hours. She was great. But you can ask those questions like, what time’s your newsroom? And what working hours do you work? Time to contact you. What stories do you like?
What are your thoughts on these stories we’ve got coming up? And then when you have that relationship, if there’s a story I think suitable for her, I’ll send it straight to her, and she’ll either cover it or she’ll give feedback or she’ll say, not right for me, but I’ll forward it to X, Y, Z who I think this is better for.
And I know she’s happy to jump on the phone as well. Um, I don’t, I don’t love a phone call. Well, um, it is a good, good way to kind of like discuss things. It’s a lot quicker than email and you can kind of do it on the spot and workshop stories. And I just did that with a crime journalist from the Sydney Morning Herald.
Cause we’ve got a lawyer as a client. Um, so we just had a big conversation about what he could offer them and what they need for stories and stuff like that, which was really interesting.
Vince: Wow. Yeah, that’s awesome. So just so I can kind of wrap my head around it, like you say you have a, let’s say, a story like the best cities for startups, one that you talked about doing, how many pitches are you sending out for a story like that?
A data-led piece.
How many pitches do you send out per piece or story?
Ellie: Um, probably we do it in stages, so I’d start off with like national and like tier one state publications. As I said, there’s not that many, but then you’ve got like a tier one state for each state. So that’s about eight publications and then like the national ones and try and do like maximum like free journalists from each one of those to begin with.
And then we kind of then go, if no one gets back, we go to like a further group of people at those. Um, Okay. And then it will go into like the monopoly angles for like the niche ones or the regional ones.
So I think it depends every time on the story, but we’ll typically do like stages of outreach.
I think maybe on average, maybe like a hundred journalists in total from like media lists I’ve done in the past, thinking back, but yeah, I think it definitely depends on the story of pitching because some might only be relevant to like a small handful of.
Journalists, obviously.
Vince: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And then overall, like what does reporting look like for your clients outside of coverage?
How do you report on digital PR with your clients?
Ellie: Obviously, we’ve put on like DR. We always list like anchor text. Do we list anchor text? No, I don’t actually know. I should know that. Um, but like the link it’s going through to potentially anchor text.
Um, and then reach, which is a bit wishy-washy because nothing gives a true reach, really. Um, and then with the new tool we’ve got, it offers a lot more detail into coverage. So we’ve been looking at advertising value, but it’s not something we report on directly. It’s just nice to have, like, Oh, by the way, like here, here’s the advertising value.
But yeah, typically just number of links and DR.
Vince: I guess the reason I asked that was that we talked about it a little bit in the beginning, like the brand tie-in and like, you know, I was curious if clients ask for that kind of stuff, like brand, you know, how’s, how’s this impacting my brand awareness?
And like, you know, do you do unlinked mentions, linked mentions, like is, do they care about the brand? Follow links versus no follow. Are the clients sophisticated enough, I guess, to care about any of the SEO implications?
How much do clients care about follow/no follow?
Ellie: Yeah. We don’t report on follow-ups or no-follow-ups just because we can’t control them.
Um, so we kind of explain that to them in like the onboarding or if they ask the question, whether we can or not, we could, if they asked, I’m sure we would, but no one’s kind of. I’ve been like, oh no, can we report on that? And then yeah, we do report on the unlinked coverage as well. We have like a separate sheet with all that in, and the,n like that’s just mainly like a reach that we cover
Vince: Do you ever follow up on those unlinked mentions?
I’m curious how receptive journalists are to that kind of thing.
Do you ever follow up on unlinked mentions in with Australian journalists?
Ellie: Yeah, it depends. I think we have an 80 percent link ratio, so to be fair, I’d say half the time they don’t link, and we have to chase up. Still, usually they’re pretty good in adding the link in, which is, I think, partly because, like, digital PR is not as big here, that maybe people don’t ask for the link that often, so they don’t think to put it in there, um. Still, they’re quite open to putting it in, but some places just say it’s against our policy.
Well, the majority of places do, and half the time, when they say they’re against link policy, they’ve either linked in the past or will link in the future, so I think sometimes the journalists just make it up.
Vince: Yeah, I just don’t feel like doing it. We’ve all been there. Well, that’s, that’s awesome.
Uh, Ellie, I really want to thank you for your time, I guess, you know, to wrap this up. Do you have kind of like a, like, it sounds like doing digital PR in Australia is awesome, right? Like you, you have a lot of ideas that you can tap into. It sounds like the journalists are really nice and receptive. What are some of the challenges?
What are some of the challenges of doing digital PR in Australia?
Ellie: I think just probably just like similar and that’s not every campaign works. You’ve been quite lucky that most of them do, but just the usual, I happen to repitch it, find new contacts. Maybe there’s always brands that may be a bit trickier to think of ideas for, cause they’ve got legal implications. But I think most of the issues are similar to what you get around the world.
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